Pain is stronger, but Sasuke wins.
While Sage Naruto boasts a faster godspeed and stronger might exclusively in terms of physique, MS Sasuke will forever be an infinitely more dangerous opponent. Why?
The nature of his arsenal. Naruto’s attacks rely on physical speed, whereas Amaterasu is as fast as his perception. Meaning even if his speed is not a fraction of yours, as long as he can move his eyeballs as fast as you he can land his attacks.
Some of his attacks can also blitz opponents faster than him. An example is his Susanoo arrows, which were going to blitz Kakashi’s physical body (he used Kamui):
As you can see, Kakashi intercepted fatigued Sasuke’s Chidori and dogwalked him in taijutsu in minutes, implying superior combat speed for him.
Despite this, Kakashi admitted his inability to physically react to Sasuke’s Susanoo arrows.
How fast was Kakashi? He was actually a perception blitz level above fatigued Sasuke physically, because we know the Chidori is stated to blitz your perception which is why you need a Sharingan to use it.
Kakashi in Base without a Sharingan reacted to Chidori Sasuke, who’s a blitz level above normal Sasuke. This scaling is very consistent:
Aside from mollywhooping Sasuke everytime they engaged each other, Kakashi outreacted Base Naruto who also happens to be relative to Chidori Sasuke:
How many blitz tiers is a perception blitz? Seven, meaning Kakashi is seven blitz tiers above Sasuke and despite this, Sasuke’s Susanoo Arrow attack can blitz him.
In short, Susanoo arrows are literally 8 blitz tiers faster than their user. If we were to use real-life metrics this’d make them at the very least 56x times faster than Sasuke.
Now, scaling wise I will begin to establish both of these characters speed scaling. There are many avenues to do this such as through Orochimaru, Jiraiya, Rasa, Danzo and Hiruzen which both connect to both Sasuke and Pain, but I think Naruto is the safest benchmark because that gives us feat scaling.
The caveat is that we’re assuming Naruto in the Pain Arc and the Kage Summit are relative, but I don’t think there’s an issue because I do not think he trains during this time period. He mostly just cries for Sasuke and begs others not to kill him.
I will analyze the encounter based on Naruto’s scaling, but for informational purposes I will delve into the other avenues you can achieve a connection between Pain and this Sasuke to allow the reader to reach their own conclusion.
Naruto scaling
As I’ve shown you earlier, Naruto and Chidori Sasuke are relative, meaning Naruto is a blitz above Sasuke. Keep in mind this scaling is only in reference to a very Fatigued Sasuke, but through this scaling I’ll explain to you why even this Fatigued Sasuke will give Pain trouble and use other scaling to further substantiate why a Full Power Sasuke would win.
As we see, Sasuke’s speed when using the Chidori (a blitz amp) would finally be relative to Tendo even though Sasuke is fatigued because of relativity to Naruto.
Fatigued Sasuke, if he powers up the Susanoo, can blitz a Chidori version of himself via the Susanoo arrow as we established in my earlier scaling, thus solidifying that Sasuke’s Susanoo arrows would blitz Pain even if he’s normally faster than Sasuke.
Scaling:
Susanoo Arrow > Kakashi > Chidori Sasuke ~ Base Naruto ~ Tendo
And this means that even Fatigued Sasuke has a move in his arsenal with the capability of blitzing Pain. He doesn’t hesitate to use this move, as he used it many times against Danzo and also rather quickly against Kakashi.
Moreover, this scaling also proves that a Full Power Chidori Sasuke would also be faster than Tendo, but it doesn’t give us comparison for non-Chidori Full Power Sasuke.
“Naruto was poisoned.” I doubt the poison took much effect on his speed at all, since he was capable of powering up a Rasengan which is the highest form of shape manipulation, implying his chakra control was not impaired which is what accounts for his stats.
Key Takeaways
- Sasuke, regardless of fatigue, can always blitz Pain with the Susanoo Arrows
- Pain can blitz normal Fatigued Sasuke without a Chidori.
- Pain and Chidori Fatigued Sasuke are relative.
- Chidori Full Power Sasuke is faster than Pain.
- This scaling doesn’t tell us where normal Full Power Sasuke scales.
Suigetsu statement & Danzo scaling.
Danzo and FP Sasuke are relative on several instances because we see Danzo tagging him as well as reacting to his Susanoo attacks.
Now, this is a shaky part, however there are several statements that can be interperted to be Danzo admitting inferiority to Hiruzen:
Unfortunately, they can also equally be interpreted to be in reference to life accomplishments such as being Hokage. For this reason, the interpretation that this is in reference to combat would just be substantiated by the other scaling I will also drop in the next section, making this a fundamentally supplementary argument that doesn’t stand on its own but makes another argument more consistent.
Key Takeaways
- Pain > Jiraiya ~ Orochimaru ~ Hiruzen > Danzo ~ Sasuke
Tsunade argument
Tsunade being above Danzo is the most solid argument to upscale Sage Naruto, which I will elaborate on here.
As stated in the databooks, Danzo does not hesitate to sacrifice the Hokage. Danzo already asserted his willingness to do so with Tsunade & his intent on taking her out in the manga, so the only explanation of this if he simply wasn’t strong enough to do so.
The rest of the scaling should be obvious:
- Pain > Jiraiya ~ Tsunade > Danzo ~ DF Sasuke
Scaling that puts Sasuke above Pain.
I personally don’t agree with this scaling, but it’s only fair I mention it. Sasuke was contending with V1 Ay using the 3 Tomoe.
Later on, V1 Ay was consistently depicting relativity to KCM1 Naruto. This is backed up by both feats and statements.
Tsunade: Nine Tails Chakra Mode is able to match the Raikage’s speed!
Databook: It could overtake even Naruto in his Nine Tails Chakra Mode
Naruto: He can keep up with my Biju mode?
All of these statements are made in reference to the Raikage before powering up to V2 making it likely that KCM1 Naruto employed the Body Flicker or had a resolve amp when dodging V2 Ay.
Naturally, it’s worth mentioning this argument assumes, or presupposes, that the Raikage does not get stronger between the War and the Summit. This argument can perfectly fit in with all the previous scaling, without contradicting it, through the following:
V1 WA Ay ~ KCM1 Naruto > SM Naruto > Sannin > FKS ~ V1 FKS Ay
The Battle
Keep in mind that even when using scaling that puts Pain above Sasuke, Sasuke’s various techniques allow him from becoming relative to Pain (Chidori) into even blitzing him (Susanoo Arrow).
For that reason, Sasuke could likely still pull a dub nonetheless despite his inferiority in physical parameters and metrics.
This took an insanely long time so I’d appreciate an upvote. No, I’m genuinely not biased towards either of them and tried to provide a very balanced analysis.
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